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24,000km service with valve adjustment

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Servicing' started by Magicmarker, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. Hi all. I just picked up a 2007 Dl650 vstrom and it is due for it's 24,000km service. By the service manual it is a major service and should include a valve check/adjustment if needed, throttle body sync, air filter clean and the rest like a regular service.

    My question is how much would you expect it to cost. I have asked by a few places and have been quoted for about $700-$900 with most parts included. Is this about right? Or have I been shopping at the wrong places? 8-[

    Although the bike doesn't sound/feel like there is something wrong, I rather be safe than sorry. Would like to get it all sorted before I take it for a long ride which I have been itching to do.

    Any help would be appreciated.

  2. Hi... I hope yours is/was cheaper than my 07 VFR. The VFR was taken in at 25,000 for the 24k service.

    Cylinders 1 and 4 had valves that were out ever so slightly. Not a big deal but glad I had it serviced. I needed new brake pads, they replaced the air filter with an k&N, replaced the spark plugs (iridium sourced from Honda) and other bits and bobs. Labor was $750.00, the whole schebang cost $1190 and some change.

    That was Team Moto at Marooka.

    I was mumbling under my breath as I walked out "this had better F*N run better". To their credit it does, I also knew the brakes were low before I took it in.

    Minor services have been costing me just under $200.00 so not sure how cheap they are in the scheme of things, other dealerships (even in the same chain) have quoted me $1000 in labor for a major service and $250 for a minor.
  3. Sounds about right....My 06 VFR cost me $1233 for much the same service at 48000km
  4. Thanks for the replies. I was surprised at the cost compared to a car. I know a bike is more expensive than a car to run but that's a big hit all at one go! I will try to do most regular servicing myself, but would rather leave the engine bits to the pros.

    Won't be able to get it in anytime soon because they're mostly booked out until next week. But when it's done will let you guys know how big the bill turned out to be. Maybe going for a ride on a NR ride after will take it off my mind :biker:
  5. Got mine finished up at the Bikesmith today and it all came up to $650. The valve clearances were good, so it didn't require an adjustment. Included in the price was a service, coolant change, brake fluid change, air filter change, and fixing up the steering head bearings.

    While in the working on the forks, they accidentally nicked part of the plastic around the handle bars and it was pointed out to me. They were very professional and offered to replace the whole part and were very honest about it. Would recommend to anyone looking for a top notch mechanic.
  6. At least someone is getting a good deal out of them.
  7. Regarding valve clearances. A while ago (aka 15-20years), I use to consider adjusting the valves an acceptable service practice. However I have now come to the viewpoint that if the valves have gone outside their specified clearances, then wear has occured and should be dealt with properly (ie. replace worn parts).

    I have found however over time, that with most modern large road bikes, like your DL650, that the valve train just does not wear (unless the bike has been abused). So in most cases, like you have found, the valve clearances should stay within specs for the life of the bike. Therefore, if you ride sensibly and regularly service your bike, then I feel it may be a waste of money, having your clearances checked.

    Of course there are disclaimers to this general observation. For late model four stroke dirt bikes which are run on their limiters & air filters not correctly maintained, you could ruin your valves in one ride. Also road race bikes, track day bikes, especially ones with hot camshfts fitted can also destroy valves in one meeting. Also with old school bikes with rocker arm / screw & locknut type valvetrains, some wear between the tip of the valve & the adjusting screw is acceptable for that design, within reason.
  8. WTF :-s
    So what you're saying is that instead of adjusting the valves with shims or, ideally, the screw and locknut installed by the manufacturer for exactly that purpose - you should replace the entire valvetrain instead (valves, seats and cams).

    F*&k that. Next you'll be saying you shouldn't adjust the drive chain tension either - just replace the chain and sprockets instead :roll:.
  9. No. Did you read my disclaimer perchance?

    Perhapps I should go into a bit more detail for the hotheaded.

    My post was mainly with regards to large touring bikes like the DL650. Any change in the valve clearances(read closed up a couple of thou) on these types of bikes, should be cause for concern. The clearances normally do not & should not change, unless something is wearing (usually the valve face). If the clearance is only half a thou out on a high mileage road bike, and you're only going up or down one shim size, then sure, shim away, no need to replace any worn parts.

    The bikes that usually require the valves replaced were listed in my disclaimer. In these cases, usually the valve clearances are checked only because the bike has become hard to start & is found to have zero clearance. It is in this type of circumstance that the valves should be replaced straight away, rather than reshim, because I have found that once a valve has worn this much, it will continue to do so. The reshim in this circumstance is only a temporary measure to get one more ride out of it before either repairing or selling.

    I understand that most people do not want to replace their valves if they find the clearances closing up, and re-shim instead. I have done this many times myself. This is wholly different to what "ideally" should be done.
  10. Yes I did - but I don't buy it. Can you provide any evidence of a DL650 that's clocked up 100,000+kms without ever having it's valve clearances checked?

    Seems odd to me that manufacturers would recommend valve adjustments, when they would in fact make a lot more money out of telling people to leave it alone until the valves are completely shot and need replacing (since it's unlikely a bike would kill a set of valves within most warranty periods).
  11. No I can't, because most people want to have peace of mind long before the 100K mark, that their clearances have been checked & are still ok. The information I can present you however is from checking the clearances of a number of DL650's at 24k, 48k & 72k, and have not found one that is out of spec. The same applies to many other japanese road bikes. When you see this again & again, day after day, year after year, you begin to question whether it is worth checking as often, if at all.
    One bike in particular, a yamaha xv250, has done over 100,000km and the clearances have not moved. Now this has the old school screw & locknut type setup which Mr yamaha says should be checked almost every service, but which I only checked every 30k or so.
    Considering the cost of having them checked, and that most owners will upgrade their bikes anyway long before 100K, my question is why even bother? Do you know of anyone who has ever had a roadside breakdown on a late model japanese road bike, due to the valves closing up?

    It is unlikely that a japanese road bike would kill a set of valves at all. I can't see how the manufacturer will make money by prescribing not checking valves which don't wear. Bike shops make money by checking them. Manufacturers make money by selling expensive rocker cover gaskets.
  12. Whilst there is soem truth in what your saying about not needing valve adjustments.
    All it takes is one to be out a fraction...tolerances are that fine on some bikes. And there's at least three grand in a top end rebuild.

    And sorry but shims wear out. That's why they come in boxes with lots in them.
    There is half an hour if you are very good just getting to the valves on a viffer....02 onwards are worse. And the 24 thou VALVE service on one is critical. After that one I will ride it for ever and not worry...well unless it starts running very bad.
    Also found the Viffer does not like Motul 5100. Much prefers the Castrol synthetic from super cheap auto...but next service it's getting diesel oil
  13. Not personally. But internet forums are full of people who have had to adjust valve clearances on a late model Japanese road bike. As Bretto points out it's preventative maintanence. A bike will still run if the clearances are slightly out but it'll accelerate the wear on the valves, either through heat or impact, increasing the likelihood of at least one valve failing (wear on the shims has already been covered).
  14. Which is fine if you keep your bike for 100 000 ks. I know I don't. I keep mine a year or two and get something else, working on the idea that life's too short and I want to own / ride as many bikes as possible. I'm happy to do all the basic maintenance but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend over a grand on a service including valve clearances for a bike which cost me $8000, that I'm going to sell anyway, seeing as I can use that money to upgrade.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. So you won't pay $1,000 for a service - but you're happy to lose more than that every year or two in depreciation?
  16. Call me a dreamer, but I has quiet little fantasy that, with all the electronic gubbins and technology around, that we'll get bikes one day real soon that read out on the dash the valve clearances for us. Is it a little Fiat car that now has it's valve gear electronically actuated. Ah, I'll dream on.
  17. Yes the piston & bearing tolerances are tighter, but the tolerances on alot of late model valves is actually greater than alot of the earlier designs. Many early screw tappets had say 4thou (+/- 1 thou) recommended clearance on inlets, and 6thou on the exhaust. Whereas some late model bikes recommend 4-8 inlet, and 8-12 ex. They have a wider clearance and a wider tolerance.

    I understand that it is a risk to take, if the clearances were out and you did not check & adjust them. However I don't believe it is as dangerous as you think, for the valves to be a fraction out. There would have to be other compounding issues for a valve being slightly out, to lead to a 3 grand rebuild.

    The shims do not wear, the valve does. Most late model bikes use the 'under bucket' type arrangement, where the shim sits between the bucket (cam follower) and the valve, and merely acts as a spacer to fine tune the clearance between the bucket and the camshaft lobe. It may get slightly 'polished' in use, but this hardly constitutes wear. The reason they come by the boxful, is to give enough variety of sizes, in enough numbers, to reshim a 16 valve engine if required.

    Yes on some bikes such as your example & the DL650, it is not difficult to get to the valves. But with labour rates of $100 + per hour, many people moan about the extra $100 + cost added to the service. There are however many bikes where it is very difficult & time consuming to get to the valves. If you have ever tried checking valves on a later R6 or 1400GTR, then you might appreciate what I am saying.

    Yes this is probably a good way to go about it. If the valves have not moved by 24k, then they're probably not going to. As long as you don't change your riding style & still service the bike, I can't see why you would need to check them again.

    Oh yes, don't get me started on oils, I'll chew your ear off. Yes I'm also a bit suspect of the 5100. The 7100 is really good, but really expensive, and I'm not sure if it's cost effective in the long run. Trialing the 3100 currently, will wait and see. Yes I've read about people using diesel oil, and it's very compelling. Have tried Mobil 1 car oil in my bike for a while & never had any problems.

  18. Yes some models do require adjustment. But many don't. Do you think it would be worthwhile putting together a list of bikes that don't, in order to save the owners of these bikes money?

    I'll start the ball rolling by proposing the DL650.

    Yes you are right, in theory. But how critical is it in practice on a touring bike that's ridden sensibly?

    Do you mean the post just before yours, or in another thread on the topic?
  19. Depends how you define "sensible". I would think that even sticking to legal speeds a bike that's ridden for thousands of kms in a hot, dusty area (like most of central Australia) would be very different to one used predominantly for highway commuting in Melbourne. Similarly bikes used in hilly regions (like TAS) are going to be very different than those in flatter parts of the country.

    I will concede though that yes, some bikes may be able to go a long time without ever needing to check the valve clearances. But similarly bikes can also go a long time without ever checking the drive chain tension, tyre pressures, battery, etc as well. So perhaps we need a separate thread, on just how much bike maintenance is actually necessary?

    Edit: Oh and I was referring to Bretto's post about shims. Out of interest have you ever actually checked the thickness of a used shim with a micrometer?
  20. Great Idea. Prescriptive service schedules have always bugged me for many reasons.

    Yes I have, and have found some worn ones. But these are the exception & not the rule. They were from bikes that run the shims on top of the bucket, where they are in direct contact with the cam lobe. Some of them had marks consistent with having been ground down by hand on a bench grinder. Some have had marks consistent with oil related problems. Hell, I've even ground down shims with wet&dry on a flat plate in desperation. Also I have checked new shims & found that their measured thickness is not the same as the size marking etched onto them, as manufacturers will often round up/down their thickness marking to the nearest 0.05mm.

    The 'shims don't wear' comment, was mainly in regards to underbucket shims. However, it can also equally apply to shims on top of buckets, so long as decent oil is used & changed often. The wearing of shims is not what I would call usual, normal or expected.