Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

VIC 2-year focus on motorcycling

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by [FLUX], Jan 30, 2009.

  1. http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24981838-2862,00.html

    Hmmm, so they're aware that education is the issue, but enforcement is the response. Education costs money. Enforcement makes money. Good one.

    The extra money spent on this enforcement effort would've been better spent on new rider education, IMO.
  2. What the hell's this crap? Where's the data to back up that tripe? How the hell did the VMAC bloke stand there while this was being said without challenging him?

    And people wonder why VMAC etc. are looked upon suspiciously by riders.

    Have these people forgotten about the 'Victorian Motorcycling Notes' series that was produced by VicRoads? Mind you, there have been none produced for several years but the issues raised there simply do not support this rubbish.

    Everyone, do yourself a favour and have a read of them. There are 12 and each has the title listed against it. They are located towards the bottom of the page.

  3. First of all - it's the Herald Sun. They will report what they want. There were a lot of positive statements mad in that interview and several people talked to the journo. He's reported what he chose to report.


    As someone who put a lot of time and effort into this - I am not happy! The diversion aspect of the program that was put up disappeared from the strategy. It was also suposed to be Community Policing and EDUCATION. Not Community Policing and ENFORCEMENT. VMAC has been bypassed on this one. We put the funding up and worked on a strategy. There was a good programme presented to us (eventually).

    However the launch was sprung on us without actually seeing the final strategy. (We still don't know what the actual strategy is)

    Creating a safer environment for motorcyclists across Victoria will be the number one priority of a new initiative launched today by Assistant Commissioner (Traffic and Transit Safety) Ken Lay, Police Minister Bob Cameron and Victorian Motorcycle Advisory Committee (VMAC) Chairman Neil O’Keefe.

    The two-year Community Policing and Enforcement to Reduce Motorcycle Road Trauma Program will be the first of its kind in Victoria and involves a series of education and enforcement activities across the state.

    An additional 10 marked and covert police motorcycles have been added to the Victoria Police fleet in order for them to target more areas than ever before.

    Assistant Commissioner Ken Lay said the ultimate aim of the initiative was to reduce the number of motorcycle fatalities and serious injuries each year.

    “Last year in Victoria 42 motorcyclists and one pillion passenger lost their lives on our roads, with 1139 others seriously injured,†he said.

    “Only around three per cent of the state’s fleet are motorcycles, yet last year they accounted for 13 per cent of the overall road toll and this year already we have lost four riders on our roads.

    “Motorcycle collisions also made up 28 per cent of the state’s overall total last year.

    “As the number of registered motorcycles continues to increase each year, it is increasingly important for police to make the safety of all motorcyclists a priority as they are one of our most vulnerable road users.

    “This initiative is the first of its type in the state and by working in close partnership with VMAC and other road safety agencies we believe we can have a greater impact in reducing the number of collisions that are occurring.â€

    Under the initiative, five major state-wide enforcement operations will be conducted each year, complemented by a further 10 regional operations annually.

    These strategic operations will take place in both well known areas patronised by motorcyclists, areas with a high number of motorcycle collisions and other emerging hot spots.

    A major component of the operations will be the education of both riders and the wider community about motorcycle issues. Information highlighting risks and advice will be provided to riders and drivers intercepted by police during operations.

    The first operation under the new initiative took place on Australia Day weekend in the Yarra Ranges area.

    Operation Yellow Flag Black Flag saw 623 motorcyclists and 144 drivers intercepted and spoken to by police as part of the education process.

    The operation also focused on a number of high-risk rider and driver behaviours including speed, unlicensed riders, crossing double lines, exceeding vehicle capacity, unsafe diverging, following too close and distractions such as mobile phones

    Other results include:

    • 8 speeding offences
    • 19 unlicensed
    • 6 unregistered
    • 4 crossing of double lines

    Police were delighted that of the 573 breath tests conducted over the operation, not one detected a driver over the limit.

    The operation took its name from the motor sport warning signals used to communicate to drivers and riders, and signifies the dual education and enforcement approach.

    Assistant Commissioner Lay said the opportunity for police to have more informal contact with motorcyclists was encouraging.

    “The aim of these high visibility operations is not solely for police to go out and book as many motorcyclists or drivers breaking the law as possible,†he said.

    “We are going to be working hard to better educate both groups about their responsibilities on the roads and what can happen when risky behaviour goes wrong.

    “Unfortunately a large number of motorcycle fatalities and collisions are due to rider error – speeding or travelling too fast for their skill level, ‘overcooking’ a corner or disobeying the road rules.

    “We had police out on the weekend’s operation speaking to riders about issues such as road rules, proper safety clothing and equipment, as well as talking to other motorists about being aware of motorcycles.

    “It’s really important that we try and change any unsafe behaviour or attitudes to stop more motorcyclists being killed or seriously injured on our roads.â€

    So far in 2009, five motorcyclists have been killed in Victoria.

  4. So, I'd like to know, did any of the rider's who were pulled over by the police in the last weekend or two receive any meaningful 'education' from the cops involved?
    I ask in all seriousness. I'm assuming that of the 625 pulled over that not all were just being ticketed...
  5. Well, it's true, isn't it?
  6. #6 TonyE, Jan 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2014
    Actually the Hun didn't publish anything that was said by anyone - in a piece of typically slack journalism they only quoted from a brief handout by the cops that went with the invitation to the launch.

    We didn't see that piece of crap disguised as a handout prior to it either.

    And this bit is pure fantasy...

    The Yellow Flag Black Flag operation intercepted 623 motorcyclists and 144 drivers.

    Mr Lay was disappointed that such a high number were intercepted, but said the opportunity for police to educate riders was a positive aspect.

    The results were

    • 8 speeding offences
    • 19 unlicensed
    • 6 unregistered
    • 4 crossing of double lines

    And this was all vehicles - not just motorcycles. In other words, 99% of those "intercepted" were not committing an offence of any type.

    Now given that I suspect there were overlaps on these (people committing two, three or even all four of the offences) that's a pretty small number of people booked.
  7. So much for building trust and communication then...

    Whatever the on-the-ground efforts of individual cops may be (yes, some of them ARE good guys), I'll never, ever trust the b@stards at the top of the VP tree.
  8. Some cop pulls me over and starts preaching to me about wearing leathers or whatever and I'm gonna laugh in his face and ask him what the LAW says about it? As long as I have a helmet on he should STFU about his/his superiors opinion.

    Other than that, I applaud their effort.
  9. In addition to Tony's comment that only a very few motorcyclists were committing an offense, I am wondering how Mr Lay could be disappointed. After all, they were targeting and pulling over every bike they saw, so it just means lots of motorcyclists were out doing what they enjoy, riding in an area more suited to recreational riding than running errands in a car, or commuting home. However, they must have only been pulling over cars when they saw an offense, since they weren't targeting them.

    That would imply that more of the car drivers pulled over were charged with offenses, so the combined offense numbers are even more biased.

    That is a very poor piece of reporting, by both the Hun and the police.

    Motorcyclists make up 3% of the state's fleet, and yet over four times as many bikes were pulled over as cars. That implies to me that not only were we targeted, but there were more motorcyclists on the road than 3% of total vehicles.

    As stated many times, the % of motorcylces in the total fleet is a stupid measure. It is far more appropriate to measure the kilometres travelled, or time spent on the road. I'm sure that using those measures, motorcylcists would represent closer to 13% of road usage, which would help to explain the toll. Notwithstanding, motorcycling is a risky form of travel, and requries more skill and attention than driving a car. The consequences of an error are also usually more serious, so motorcyclists end up more often with serious injuries, or dead, as a result of an error.

    In other words, motorcyclists are probably not disproportionally represented in the road toll figures if you take into account the proportion of road usage that motorcycling represents. Motorcyclists just get out there more often, and are less likely to be just running short distance errands.

    All this does not mean that motorcyclists should be policed out of existence. It is, and should remain, a personal choice to ride a motorcycle or not.

    Someone with the real numbers can shoot me down in flames. :p
  10. #10 TP, Jan 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2014
    No, it is absolute crap. Have a read of the link I posted. Read M/C notes no. 11.

    Tony, it sounds quite simple. If what has been wheeled out is not what was agreed to then VMAC pulls the funding, effective immediately. It is our bloody money that has been pulled out of our pockets and VMAC reportedly has control over how it is spent. Time they learnt about who has the purse strings.

    I don't know about laughing in their face mate. Perhaps acknowledging that safety gear provides a greater level of protection but that you know there are inherent risks in riding, you have evaluated them and ride with the safety gear required under the law and have exercised your right to choose what else you wear. Further, as your bike is registered you have paid your TAC premium to get fixed up if shit comes to trumps.
  11. In that area - probably closer to 50% :LOL:

    And since it was specifically targeting motorcycles you're right - that's a lot of cars pulled over as well.

    What I'd like to know is how many people were pulled over and warned for a minor offence - not booked. That will give a better idea of the attitude and what they intend for the future.

    Well we don't have the real numbers so you're still pretty safe :? -
    the Vehicle Kilometres Travelled (VKT) figure used by the Dept of Infrastructure (formerly ATS8) is actually lower than for cars. I've been having a running fight over this at Motorcycle Safety Consultative Committee meetings for a couple of years.

    They quote the Bureau of Statistics figures as gospel. Unfortunately the BoS figures for motorcycle VKT come with a caveat that they are not necessarily reliable and in some cases may vary up to 20%.

    Both the rider and industry reps on VMAC are very unhappy with the way the whole thing has been managed. We have not yet received a copy of the Memorandum of Understanding as to how this strategy will be managed - despite asking several times. Until we have more information there is no way that we can comfortably endorse this campaign. The one we believed was going to be implemented was good - the one that's been implemented we just don't know what the hell is happening yet.
  12. This is the thing that gets my back up. When the positives get buried in the diatribe.

    They constantly harp on about the 'statistics' of how many accidents we have, but there is also a hidden statistic of how many we avoid.

    As road users we're regularly put in the position where we have to make allowances for other drivers poor driving, or we'll just add to their statistics.

    I'm only guessing, but I'm pretty sure we miss more than we hit. And it's not because of the road rules, it's not because of policing, and it's not because of government initiatives. It's because of skill.

    If they want to reduce the hit rate and increase the miss rate, they need to focus their efforts on increasing the skill rate.
  13. I don't know how the BoS could possibly have an accurate source for VKT for motorcycles.

    Too many bikes are maintained by the owners, so it can't be from service records. I don't know of any surveys that have been thorough enough, and I don't believe they would be accurate anyway. Any counting done on city roads totally misses all the recreational rider kilometres.

    Not to mention, the authorities claim there are high numbers of unregistered bikes, which would not be included in that 3% of the total fleet, and would not be included in any BoS data.

    Keep up the fight Tony.
  14. We can rail against the Herald-Sun, but really, this press release has been concocted in a meeting between Spring Street and St Kilda Road, IMHO.

    It has to be said: rider reps simply cannot trust the VP upper echelon and should not allow themselves to be associated with it. They've shown often enough that they will abuse the confidence of those that try to work with them. They are only interested in their own agendas.

    Talk to them, yes, but always assume they are lying. Don't publicly put your name with theirs - it's not only unsafe, it's also politically unwise.

    (Easy to say, I know...)
  15. If the 'Press Release' is unenhanced blame the authors of the release and not the Newspaper. Sounds like usual public grandstanding to me!
  16. VMAC and motorcyclists in general didn't actually believe what those nice police officers and politicians were telling them did they?...oops been shafted by the pollies and the police...who ever would have thunk it :roll:

    There was a time when the police did the right thing...now they tow the line of whatever government is in power at the time...

    I wonder if Ken Lay actually believes the shit that comes out of his mouth...or is it that the roads minister has his hand so far up the puppets arse that he can't help himself.

    Not knocking VMAC here because you are busting your arses trying to effect change....but come on guys do you REALLY think you can trust these pricks?
  17. So much for JDK going on bout exciting new measures and policies and building bridges with the politicians.
    You guys at VMAC are so farkn naive.
    Why are you not ripping into mr Lay about the article?
    Why are you not ripping into those responsible for this tripe?
  18. Ahhh Smee - I am monitoring the reactions. Am not surprized at the discussion.

    It is early days....
  19. What has this to do with your so called contacts?
    It appears you were shafted by the politicians and especially Vicpol using vmac money.
    Again what should be the appropriate response and don't say some namby pamby letter writing campaign to the herald sun as it never works.
    More severe action is required for what will most likely end up being harrassment and enforcement rather than education.
    Take a stand and lay into those responsible.
  20. Like I said - its early days :grin: :grin:

    I'm still watching and monitoring........

    Tony has covered most of what I would be saying.