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QLD 0 BAC for Mature L and P Platers

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by TRA, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. #1 TRA, Jun 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    I dont really get the L Plate thing being from QLD, but up here an RE (LAMS) licence requires you to have 0 BAC. The rules for a P plate rider don't require you to show a P plate on your bike if you are not required to show one on your car, or so I have been told. So that means most mature age riders dont need to strap a P plate to their motorbike if they have just got their RE licence.

    However, regardless of your age or experience you are still required to have a BAC of 0.0 for the first 12 months of your RE or your R (unrestricted) licence.

    I was watching this vid here on youtube [media=youtube]9DkIb4uPsUU[/media] . About 14 minutes in a 47 year old on a Ducatti gets pulled up, he had a few the night before and blew 0.02something after a previous night on the sauce.

    Now this is just bullshit, a guy of that age, having held a licence for that long should not be restricted to 0.0. I dont have a problem with cops in this case, they did not make the law. But its clearly a load of shit. In QLD, if you do not need to carry a P plate, I don't think the 0 BAC rule should apply.

    Now I am raging a lot here, and all you Queenslanders should too, because is the current range of bureaucrats have their way ALL of us motorcyclists will be required to have a BAC of 0.0. That means you will get done just as the Duke rider did in that youtube clip. I dont drink and then ride, but sometimes we go out west and get on the piss then ride home the next day. In that case, I would lose my licence.
  2. What you say is not quite correct, according to TMR:


    In Queensland the 'P' applies to the license as a whole, not each class of license, so if you have an open license and you pass the test for an RE or R class, then you have an open RE or R.

    But, there is a zero limit while you are learning, or for the first twelve months on RE.
    Also, you can't carry a pillion for the first twelve months on RE, or for the first twelve months on R (but you can if you're riding a LAMS bike).

    Also check out http://tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Driver-guide/Alcohol-and-drugs/Anti-drink-driving.aspx and note that it doesn't mention the first twelve months on R.
  3. Without indicating whether I agree with the restriction or not: What do you think the guy's age or the time in which he has held a car licence have to do with his ability to control a motorcycle under the influence of alcohol?
  4. What do you think the guy's age or the time in which he has held a car licence have to do with his ability to control ANY VEHICLE under the influence of alcohol?
  5. its that way in mexico(vic) Whilst i disagree with the 12 months on RE as you really should be competent a long time before 12 months has passed. But A Two Wheeler =/= a car/truck. I know a few mature P-Platers I wouldn't let near a drop and then ride with....
  6. Key point you seemed to miss. 0.02 is not under the influence of alcohol.
  7. Huh? His previous experience driving a car will have a direct effect on how well he is able to control a car, just as his previous experience riding a motorcycle will have a similar effect on how well he is able to control a motorcycle. If we can agree that the effect of alcohol is that it negatively influences whatever ability he currently posses to pilot either vehicle, then clearly it is better for him to use, when under the influence, whichever one he has a greater ability to control to begin with.

    I agree that 0.02 isn't anything to write home about, but that's not the point. I was responding to the opinion that previous experience driving a car should alter the alcohol restriction imposed on new riders. Even though there is a large overlap (eg awareness of road rules, situation awareness etc), experience driving a car does not equate to experience riding a motorcycle. This is especially relevant to the topic of alcohol because you have to balance while riding a bike.
  8. Incorrect Once alcohol is consumed you are under its influence.
  9. An experienced driver doesn't mean a competent driver let alone a competent bike rider.
  10. This is all moot. There are moves to bring a national GLS which would see all riders, regardless of previous road experience or age, suffer through a mandatory 4 year period of LAMS, with pillion & 0 BAC restrictions for that whole time.

    - - -
    Tapatalking loud, saying somethin'
  11. Alcohol does not just slow down reaction time and motor-skills it also changes risk perception. People who are older than about 25 have different approaches to risk and assess risk differently to the 15-25 year olds (I don't have the studies at hand, and I've only read them second hand). I think it is fair to say that the risk taking behavior is of more concern than the other problems -- this is why alcohol causes so many crashes when other activities, like having naturally crap reaction time and motor-skills, or being tired, don't cause as many crashes. Anyway that is the hypothesis -- I haven't proven it.

    To Robbs point we should get rid of LAMS and follow the European learner bike standards, they are not dissimilar but it means learner could access more bikes specifically designed for non-sports learners eg NC700S.
  12. Sorry where did I say "experience driving a car does equate to experience riding a motorcycle."?

    I dont have a problem with younger drivers having a 0.00BAC as there is data to show that they are more susceptible to road accidents with low level BAC. There is plenty of research both here in AU as well as the US. But I am yet to see any data that shows a similar pattern for new mature age drivers. Happy to be proven wrong.
  13. he wont do it again......
  14. Why did it drop from 0.02 to 0? 0.02 was reasonable, it allowed you to be a normal person, have a beer over dinner or drive the next day after a few too many the night before. Was there any evidence that people under 0.02 are more of a risk then people on 0?
  15. IMO there is a huge problem with 0.00 being the standard. It's quite common for foods to ferment in the gut, generating low level readings. Then there's the whole problem with intent (and effect) when it comes to day-after positive readings.

    0.00 is unjustifiable on any fairness basis. 0.01 to 0.02 would effectively cover reasonable safety concerns without unfairly trapping well-intentioned individuals.

    Obviously no magic spell makes a mature rider safer, one day after the 12 month period expires.

    Good point about risk-taking and pre-mature brains from A Boy Named Sue.
  16. And that is extremely disturbing.
  17. #17 NSSherlock, Jun 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    Lucky you aren't in NSW. That's 0 BAC AND a P plate displayed on the back for 12 months for a new bike licence if over 25 and on a full car licence.
  18. A <25yo novice rider has higher risk profile than an <35yo novice, who has a higher risk profile than a <45yo novice rider etc etc. There is NO reason to impose the same restrictions on a mature novice rider versus a totally noob road user. Someone who has been driving for many years has both an inherently different risk profile due to their age AND has a fair degree of road experience that they will bring to their riding.

    From that perspective, I don't think 0.00 or 0.02 BAC is warranted for a mature aged P rider with road experience.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Get off the piss and stop worrying!
  20. That's the nice thing about South Australia. After my learners, once I passed and got my R-date (1 year) the only restriction was that I had to ride a LAMS bike (had a full car licence).

    It was nice to know I could have a beer after work or a glass of wine with dinner and still ride. I would hate for that to be legislated away but I fear that is where we are heading (for cars as well as bikes).