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Countersteering

I think I understand it all now!

  1. Mouth
    Countersteering. I think I understand it all now!
    By Andy Luck

    I do not
    say that countersteering has...
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    Simmo W likes this.
  1. Hi, this is Andy Luck here. I submitted the articles referred to in this thread over a decade ago and I have had some other insights since then. I have a new Paper entitled 'The Unified Theory of Motorcycle Steering' which I would like to offer as a replacement for articles referenced. The copies on Netrider have been copied to another website and, much as I wish to share my thoughts with as many people who are interested, I would like them to be my CURRENT thoughts rather than historical ones. Please let me know how I can submit the new Paper. I have not found a mechanism on this site yet!



    Thanks
     
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  2. I bet the kid who is doing this has no idea of the physics involved.......


    But we know what it's all about.

    IMG_5152.JPG
     
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  3. I tried, I really did, but was asleep by the third paragraph. think I'll go watch the grass grow now for a bit of entertainment!
     
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  4. I'll just get the kid to demonstrate it for you, that's all you need to know.
     
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  5. imagine a kid could explain it a little more succinctly also
     
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  6. Well, i dunno, I am just a newbie and was tempted to believe this Counter Steer magic.

    Fortunately I asked an older guy, been riding over 40 years, and he told me it is all total BS. He kindly explained that it is plain silly steering left if you want to go right. He goes round corners by LEANING his bike.

    Anyway, I am happy he managed to clear that up before I killed myself.
     
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  7. leaning the bike is fun!
     
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  8. It is something that one either wants to understand in an effort to refine their skills or on the other hand some people are quite happy to do it naturally without thinking about it cos it just works.
    Twist of the wrist probably explains it in a more practical way that's easier to understand because it's accompanied by physical examples as it is explained but I really enjoyed reading that article/ theory.
    Personally I like to study all I can about riding because it just seems to come together on the road.
     
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  9. MichaelR65MichaelR65 how do you/the old bloke LEAN the bike?

    Just for the record, I would like to see Andy Luck's revised article.
     
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  10. Sure, it just needs to be written concisely. I think the pertinent points could have been pervade within 3-4 paragraphs. was like trying to walk thru concrete to read it all
     
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  11. ps Camber thrust is only relevant in the case of motorcycles and tyres. A ski bike with rake and trail countersteers and changes direction, so that indicates that neither gyro or camber thrust are essential. Admittedly, I base this off the msgroups site and JR Davis's physics based description of countersteering.
     
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  12. I'm going to see if I can revive a nodding thread now....:emoji_stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::emoji_wink:
     
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  13. Do it.
     
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  14. The countersteering topic never goes out of fashion though.
     
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  15. Yeah, it's actually so simple.
     
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  16. Yeah Andy, please share the new version.

    I don't know robsalvvrobsalvv , I find countersteering works very well for me having first experimented about two days after I did my pre-learners (about two years ago) but this other guy insisted he just gripped with his knees and shifted his weight.
     
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  17. He doesn't have a clue.

    You initiate a steering input that sets the bike on a curved path and you also choose a speed. Physics causes a lean angle as a result of those two factors. It looks like we choose a lean angle but we don't. It looks like our steering input destabalises the bike and causes a lean which then steers the bike, but that's not right either. We steer the bike - full stop. Lean is a derivative of speed and radius.

    For all intents and purposes, push right go right, push left go left, is all we pragmatically need to know.
     
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  18. I'll go with gyroscopic precession all day long. Input to the bar (say PUSH on the left bar) 'tries' to make the front wheel turn right at the leading edge (but more importantly it tries to make the trailing edge (closest to the engine) twist left). Gyroscopes (the wheel going above 20kph) work by translating the force 90deg forward in direction of rotation, meaning now the top of the wheel want to 'twist' or lean left, making the bike lean left and turn left.

    That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it. I can't see how else it could work. But it does work well.

    And I agree, just 'leaning' left aint gunna cut it. Same as in many other threads on the matter.
     
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  19. Yeah, i think that was the point I was making! He does not have a clue. However, it is interesting that after well over 40 years of riding the mystery of countersteering still seems totally implausible to him, to the point of dismissing it as BS.

    Staggering though that there are so many theories but no definitive explanation. I think I commented on the previous countersteering thread that perhaps we should ask whoever developed that motorcycling robot. Surely they must know.
     
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